punishment

ponderouspet wrote to me about punishment.

Hi there!

Been pondering a bit. I have issues when it comes to punishment. There are several ways to punish, but most of the "common" ways, would lead to disaster. We do not use spanking as punishment, one reason is that he doesn't feel to do that, since I like spanking, and feel that there wouldn't then really be a punishment. He is also fearing that I could end up not liking spanking. I know from childhood that I tend to end up resentfull of physical punishment. Then you have absence, now that brings fear and axiety. That can also end in resentment. You off course have yelling, but that would not work at all, since I react very badly to yelling. So how do you really punish a person that has all this? How to punish me when I am put together like this? Because, in D/s doesn’t there need to be punishments for it to work? I mean, doesn’t failure or breaking rules have to have consequences, and aren’t the usual idea that broken rule follows up by punishment? How to deal with that in a way that wont hurt the relationship?

I optet these thoughts on my last blogpost, and it keeps bugging my mind. It has been bugging my mind before. Nothing me and my man hasn't talked about before. I know he struggels with this to. He has actually asked me if there are a way he could punish without it hurting our relationship. So I then get the idea that he inded wish for having punishments... But we are both fairly new to the lifestyle, so things are hard to figure out.

- ponderouspet

I replied as follows

Thanks for writing ponderouspet

I've written quite a bit on Pygar about punishment I think.

I can understand you not wanting spanking as a punishment as that is currently a pleasure - so that could get confusing and difficult in a number of ways. There are punishments that can be equally as effective as pain. Many subs say that the worst punishment is being ignored. In a true D/s relationship I believe that the key "punishment" is a subs own knowledge that she has upset, disappointed or angered her Dom - and her sadness and distress at this. Any further punishment then becomes inconsequential.

I know some subs though feel that a physical punishment of some kind can wipe away the fault and take away their guilt - thus allowing them to begin afresh with a clean slate. In such a case perhaps it should be the sub who begs the punishment and may even suggest to her Dom what might be appropriate.

Having read your post I know you recognise yourself some of the issues from your past relating to punishment and your acceptance of it. I am sure that will continue to affect you now. I am concerned too about your previous need for cutting. I hope that D/s and bdsm may work together for you in ways that help you develop a positive and strong outlook. I know they have done for some other subs with similar experiences to yourself.

I enjoy "punishing" in a more light-hearted way. I have some sadistic tendencies so enjoy administering spankings, beatings and other painful activities. However this for me is more within the context of erotic or bdsm play rather than as a real punishments for active misdemeanours. I have not been in a true "domestic discipline" type of relationship - it is not my style I am afraid. In any case I am aware that praise can be more effective than punishment in controlling behaviour.

I am currently mentoring a sub who was distressed at the end of a long relationship. So far I have been using praise and pleasure for success as my main training tool. She is thriving on it - blooming even and feels she has grown into her submission much more in the last few months.

Does any of this make any sense?

I am not sure that I have really answered your question properly though - in which case I am sorry. Perhaps my readers may be more adept!

Good luck

Pygar xx

I will soon be writiting a companion pice on "A Kind Dom" about praise.

My previous posts on punishment can be found here:
http://xpygarx.blogspot.com/2008/09/punishment.html
http://xpygarx.blogspot.com/2011/02/submission-pain-and-masochism.html
http://xpygarx.blogspot.com/2011/03/pain-and-punishment.html
http://xpygarx.blogspot.com/2011/04/punishment.html

to wax or not to wax ...

I received the following email with an unusual question recently. Well it seemed unusual to start with - whether or not a sub should stop waxing at the instruction of a new Dom when it was a very special issue to her. In the end though the question wasn't really about waxing but about trust and understanding. The email exchange is here.

Dear Uncle Agony,

I am a follower of your blog and very much enjoy your writing and thoughts.

I am hoping you might be able to give me some advice from a Dominant Man's point of view.

I am very new to the D/s world. I recently met a man online and he is kind, not demanding (yet) and very attentive. I am looking forward to meeting him for the first time in a few months.

I am clean shaven (waxed). He prefers a lady "au natural". He has requested that I do not continue waxing, and allow my pubic area to go. I told him that this is something I do not want to do. He has given me one month to think things over, and then at the end of this month, we will discuss again.

I DO NOT WANT to stop waxing. I have made a list to discuss with him (my reasons why etc).

What are you thoughts regarding his request? Is he being unreasonable? It is my personal preference, and I just do not feel like a lady if I am not smooth all over!

I welcome any advice/help you might have time to give me.

Thank you very much.

star

My reply is here.

Dear star

Thank you for your email.

For myself - I prefer a woman clean shaven. I enjoy cunnilingus and hate getting hairs in my teeth! However that was not your question. It is about your partners wishes and your response.

Your new partner prefers a woman unshaven but your strong preference is the opposite. It seems a strange thing to have become such a big issue so early in the relationship. It is clearly very important to him in the same way that it is very important to you. But surely a developing relationship is not going to founder at its first hurdle over whether or not you wax.

I wonder rather whether he is testing you out - and trying to see how obedient you are prepared to be to him even over something very important to you. But it could be that he is just uncaring of your strong concerns.

However he has not instructed you not to wax. You say he has requested it. He has not threatened to punish you or close the relationship - he has given you a month to think it over before it will get discussed again. You are marshalling your arguments in the hope that he might relent. Perhaps if your arguments are good then he will do so.

However as well as power of argument I think it can be good for a sub to use other skills of persuasion. Many Doms might be influenced by some humility and gentle pleading in such a response. I wonder if rather than arguing with him you prostrated yourself and begged so very prettily to be allowed to keep yourself shaven it might prove to be more effective - and more indicative of your desire to submit to him and please him.

Perhaps it is good to have such a challenge early in the relationship. It is giving each of you an opportunity to explore how to resolve such disagreements within a D/s context. It may take some skill and care from you both to resolve.

Take care when you meet for the first time. I hope it all works out really well for you

Best wishes

Pygar

This was the start of a longer conversation which gives more background - but I wonder how my readers recommend star should respond?

A Road Block

I've just receive this email from Trance. She and her boyfriend are new to D/s but keen to move forward. However they seem to have come up against a road block. Any suggestions?

"Hi Pygar,

I recently began a new relationship. We’re both pretty kinky, and my boyfriend has expressed an interest in being dominant. I’ve known for years that I’ve been submissive, but I just recently started considering a D/s relationship. We’re moving very slowly, but making some progress. Recently we sort of hit a road block. I’m naturally pretty nervous about this whole thing, but my boyfriend says that I’m not submissive because I fight him on everything. I’ll admit that I do let my nerves and self-consciousness get the best of me sometimes, but I just assumed that every submissive went into it a little apprehensive and it was the Dom’s job to sort of train the submissive. Am I wrong? And any advice for overcoming my nervousness?

Thanks,

Trance."

I replied

"Dear Trance

I think there are so many complexities here. You have a new relationship, D/s is newish to each of you and conflicts are developing. Perhaps 'conflicts' is too strong a word. However there seems danger of real conflict if you cannot develop shared understandings. It would seem a great pity if rushing too quickly into discovering and experimenting with D/s destroyed your underlying relationship. If you can make your underlying relationship strong - with mutual trust and respect - then that will help the future development of a D/s relationship. You could end up with something very special.

For now - neither of you is wrong or right. There is no wrong or right. It is what can work for you.

He says you are not submissive because you fight him over everything. Perhaps he is right. You say it is the Dom's job to help you overcome your nervousness. Perhaps you are right.

At the moment I am with you. It is new to you - but you are apprehensive, nervous, looking for support and help in exploring your feelings and discovering a new direction. He is frustrated that you say you are submissive but cannot obey him. So he is confused and frustrated.

You are right to take it slowly. But it seems you could do with some support and mentorship from others. However in the end it is not how others have succeeded - it is how you are going to find the right path to success. I think your boyfriend needs to have some patience and understanding. He cannot command you into submission but with a little more delicacy then perhaps he might seduce you into submission.

Don't get angry and cross with each other. Just each try your best to understand the other and help each other to make it work. Talk about it - and listen to each other. If he can help you to discover and awaken your submission he will reap far more benefits than berating you for not being submissive.

You will overcome your nervousness when you truly and deeply trust your boyfriend and know that he will always care for you. In the meantime - don't fight him. Just explain when things are difficult. Expect him to listen and lead you again.

It isn't easy. Just work at it together.

Good luck

Pygar "

What do others think? How can they get past the road block?

love in the lifestyle

SouthernSir sent me this interesting question (and later his own response which I agree with.) He and I would be interested in readers' views on this.

Hello Pygar

I am curious about how one feels regarding how love fits in to the BDSM lifestyle.
In reading various resources I have noticed that there are many Dom's who feel
that love towards one's sub is actually a detriment to the relationship and the lifestyle as a whole.
Once a Dom begins to feel emotion's towards their sub it changes the dynamics of the relationship
in such a way that to some they feel it makes them weak, or because of the fact that they now love this person that
they feel they are now no longer able to push their subs limits out of fear of hurting them.
Doesn't love make you stronger not weaker in any relationship?
How can one truly guide someone and push their boundaries in all ways if they do not truly care for that person?

Curious on thoughts about this.

Respectfully yours
SouthernSir

I replied,

Thank you SouthernSir for your interesting email.

I feel a caring relationship with a sub is essential. Just my approach. I feel that a real attachment between sub and Dom is key to such relationships. How could a sub give herself totally to her Dom if she did not feel she was cared for - and yes, loved?

I find I have to have a strong affection for a sub and I am not frightened to call it love. Her submission is something precious - to give this deserves respect, care and love.

If a Dom feels no emotion towards his sub then I worry he is not a Dom but an abuser.

I agree strongly with you that love makes you stronger not weaker in a relationship.

You are right that it is possible to push boundaries when there is trust and respect and a true knowledge of care and love.

- Pygar

So what do readers think?

from husband to Dom - part 2

Shortly after the email from Ann published in the previous post I received this email from London.

Hi,
I was reading your blog and I wondered if you could possibly help me out a little.
I am interested in exploring my submissive side. I would prefer to explore this with my husband. The problem lies with the fact he is pretty vanilla in the bedroom. I have tried to spice things up, offer myself for service, and to tell him in romantic situations he can have what ever he wants. It really goes no where. Do you have any advice to possibly help?..
Thanks
London

It was interesting that this was similar to the email I had received from Ann. I replied:

Hello London

This is very difficult - and a problem that I know a lot of submissive women have. I know a number who want to explore their sub side but whose husbands have no interest at all. Some have worked with their husband to try to move things forward with varying degrees of success. I hope to publish an email from one such on Uncle Agony in the next few days.

I suppose communication is at the heart of this. It might be that you could try to be totally open with your husband about your needs and ask him directly if he would try taking a more dominant role in trying to meet your needs and desires.

Some men find this quite difficult. It contradicts what they believe is an appropriate way to show their love and respect for their wife. However it is only through sharing your needs and desires with him that you will be able to discuss such issues with him. Do recognise though that he may be upset at such revelations and the fact he did knot know you as well as he thought. So take it gently and with care.

Good luck

Pygar

London wrote straight back,

Pygar x,
Thank you so much for the advice. I have thought a lot about this since the email I sent you. A good friend of mine who is very vanilla but I trust their confidence, suggested I start making myself more attractive to him and to do things that please him. My friend suggested things like always wear something sensual to bed. To wear makeup and dress in ways I think he would like. My friend also suggested I do more around the house such as clean and bake more. My friend thinks that this could lead to the perfect conversation opener. He will certainly notice the changes in me and I can start the conversation by saying "it makes me very happy to pleasure and serve you."
What do you think?
And yes I have no problem with you publishing my emails.

Thanks,
London

What do readers think London should do? Should she try to talk it through with her husband as I suggested or should she follow her friend's idea and almost try to seduce him into dominating her?

from husband to Dom?

Ann wrote to me with this interesting email.

Greetings Pygar,

I have been following your blog for a short while and appreciate the topics you address along with the response garnered by your followers.

I was initially drawn to the D/s lifestyle though romantic fiction and now crave real life conversation to further inform me on the possibilities.

In this quest, I have made contact with my local BDSM group and even managed to attend a munch with my husband!

Below is a rough breakdown of our most important experiences.

• He previously (before the D/s conversations started) broke my trust by not respecting NO. We are on our way to repairing that but my trust is still shaky.
• Our first scene went horribly emotionally wrong. We did not inform ourselves and there was no safe word. *cringe*
• He refuses to submit to me when we attempt bedroom scenes. He says he wants to be punished. We obviously need to clear up some language and behavioral rules here. If he wants the "punishment" then it isn't punishment, it is a reward. For good behavior. For submitting. (This particular conversation has been had but I feel like the blind leading the blind here!)
• He currently initiates take down scenes which are very therapeutic for me. I can see the potential for the Dom I think I want here. He knows what I need.
• I'm afraid I will overwhelm him with my intensity of emotion and he will feel OBLIGATED as my husband to do this for me.

Ultimately, I have discovered that I do crave submitting. But I fear he does not crave my submission. Have a put myself between a rock and hard place? Or am I just impatient?

Thanks for listening, Ann

I replied with the following email.

Dear Ann

There is so much in here I am unsure where to start. Thank you though for writing. I am pleased that you have found my posts and the responses helpful. The commenters usually speak far more sense than me!

You mentioned finding D/s through romantic fiction. I am sure for many of us such fiction has lead us to search for similar real time experiences. Do be wary though. Fiction and fantasy can often be very different from reality. In BDSM as well as romance the dreams of the novels are rarely brought to fruition in real life.

It is great that you have been to a munch or something similar with your husband and met real people. But even in that - all "real" people have their own reality. There is no reason why you should not create your own reality.

You have had a lot of challenges in your real-time journey. In particular not taking "no" for an answer, needing and lacking a safe word, your overwhelming him with your own emotions ... all strike me as key.

In craving submission but being unsure of your partner's ability to meet your needs you find yourself in the same position as many of my online sub friends. It is a difficult and insecure place. No - you are not just impatient. However patience may be the key for now.

You are at the beginning so taking things slowly - or at least at a pace that seems comfortable to both of you would be a good thing. I know though how impatient I get in new BDSM relationships and know that I tend to rush things! To my cost though I know that can be a mistake.

I think communication is the key and a desire to understand each other and take account of each others developing needs. I wonder also if you each are yet aware fully aware of your own desires and needs let alone the others? You each seem to have been playing in different roles as sub and Dom - perhaps exploring and discovering. Many do like to switch though others (including myself) feel to be happiest in one role. I wonder too whether you are just exploring the more physical side of BDSM or also the more psychological aspects of D/s and where they overlap?

Do read lots, learn what you can, remember that there are dangers - emotional and psychological as well as physical, take care of each other, have fun and enjoy yourselves.

With kind regards and very best wishes

Pygar xxxx

So what do readers think? Is Ann just being impatient?

Where are the real life Doms?

I've just received the following questions from puppy:

um im 18 an tired of dating boys who are so weak that i get away with anything from teasing them and then saying no and then they just stop like what is that they want me but they don't understand that i want/need someone to tell me what to do and be stronger than me.

well anyways i went to online place to meet men and wrote what i was looking for in a man and was so swamped with responses that it was freaking me out.

finally one man he is 42 years old knew exactly what i needed the thing is he wants to cam first which i don't mind we already exchanged lots of pics and stuff. The problem i am having is what if he doesnt want to really meet me which i want more than anything the what if part comes from maybe he only wants online sub instead of real life.

i know i am a sub and have been since i was a little girl but where are the real life Doms if there are any? And how do i sort the fakes who only want online girls to the ones who want real life?

sorry for my bad spelling

tyvm if you can help me?

- puppy

I replied as follows:

Hello puppy

Thank you for writing. I'm not sure how much I can help but I will try.

I think if you tease boys and then say 'no' - they are right to stop.
You might want to go further but there are girls who just like to
tease and when they say 'no' mean 'no'. A man going too far in such
circumstances could lead to serious consequences.

The whole point of BDSM and D/s is that it is consensual. The way it
works for each couple is worked out over time - so it may be that in a
particular relationship 'no' does not always mean 'no'. However the
Dom would understand the sub well enough to know when that is the
case. Often in such relationships they may have a 'safe word' - and that
really should mean 'no'.

However I can understand your frustrations. If you have been dating
men close to your own age I think few will have the life experiences,
knowledge and experience to be a true Dom. There may also be much for
you still to learn about your submission. That may be why you have
found an older Dom to help you on your journey.

Is he the one for you? Does he want real time or just online? I cannot
tell - you will need to decide that on your own. However as you have
found there are a lot of predatory men on contact sites. Many of them
may pretend to be into D/s when in truth they are just after sex. It
might be that the man you have met online already has a real-time
relationship and only wants online play.

However meeting someone who you only know from the internet can also
be full of potential dangers. So if and when you meet someone make
sure you take appropriate measures to ensure your personal safety.

I do understand your difficulties in meeting a Dom and your eagerness
to get some real experience. However do try to be patient and get it
right. It could be that attending local munches might be a way of
making friends on the scene. You will get lots of friendly advice,
invitations to events and may even meet a Dom who is right for you.

Good luck - I do hope you find what you are searching for.

Best wishes

Pygar

Perhaps readers can offer some further advice to puppy.