Learning about Dominance

I have just had an interesting exchange of emails with J. He is interested in learning more about dominance but has not found the resources he seeks. I publish our emails below.

Hello there!

I am interested in learning more about the brass tacks of Dominance in so far as scene crafting and basic how-to's. Most of what I have seen out there from an educational standpoint seems to be slave training or stuff geared toward submissives. My sub and I have attended a few workshops here and there when time allows, but I don't know any other Dom/mes that I can skillshare with or bounce ideas off of. Another issue is that I identify as a feminist and I want to steer clear of people who aren't respectful to gender minorities and/or don't have a proper understanding of power and privileges that play out in our non-BDSM lives. Can you offer any advice or connect me with anyone who can give some insight to newly out Dom/mes? Is there anything you've read that has been particularly enlightening? I'm considering getting the Topping and Bottoming books and I have read The Loving Dominant. Something that's less theory and more "meat" would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

J

I replied,

I don't beleive that there are right or wrong ways to be a Dominant - other than in the ethical sense and that is what led me to start writing the "A Kind Dom" blog. I wanted to esplore the ethical contradivtions in kindness and being dominant. I also wanted to look at the danger of emotionally or psychologically vulnerable submissives becoming being manipulated or abused. I too would identify as a feminist and have discussed it on the blog here and here. There was an interesting comment by Remittance Girl which also discussed feminism here.

I have come across many submissive bloggers who would describe themselves as feminists. A quick Google comes up with lots. Though there are many others for whom feminism is an anathema. Everyone is different and I believe it is for each of us to come up with our own model of what works for us in a respectful and trusting relationship.

Reading though can help you find lots of other ideas and models. As well as The Loving Dominant I have listed a number of books on Uncle Agony that have been recommended by readers and a few websites.

You may also find that joining a kinky social networking site like Fetlife will help you find like minded networks of people with whom you can discuss your thoughts and learn from them. Even just reading personal bdsm blogs can give a special insight into how real people live their lives within a bdsm framework.

I suggested that I publish J's email on Uncle Agony in the hope that readers may respond. He replied positively and added,

Part of my desire to learn more as a Dom/me (spelled thusly because I am gender fluid) stems from my desired to dominate ethically and with the psychological wellbeing of my submssive (who is also my wife) intact. I have been a member of FetLife for approximately two years, and while it's a great way to network, resources for feminist Dominants are lacking on there as well. I was drawn to your blog after I made contact with a Dom who initially said things I appreciate, but digging into other writings of his revealed him to be quite problematic and misogynistic.

I suppose I shall continue my search. I've considered just trying to learn as much as I can from a Dom/me who might be problematic, while actively filtering out that which I know doesn't jive with my consciousness. But damn, that feels like a daunting task! It also leaves one vulnerable to being associated with someone who doesn't have a great track record, and that is dangerous in small communities where affiliation is important.

So readers. Do you have any direct suggestions for J or other ideas for where he can search?

submission, masochism and self harm

I had a new comment here to an earlier post about submission, pain and masochism on A Kind Dom recently:

Pet said...

Sir,

Is this comment a bit late? I'd like to mention I love the way you wrote... That may seem odd, but I have a writing fetish (not sexually... :P) Either way, I wonder about your ideas on submissives and masochists. I've known that I'm submissive for far too long, but I've only recently realized that I might be a masochist as well.

This is something that bothers me, not because I feel uneasy with my own preferences, but because I'm not sure whether or not I am one, and I don't really understand the difference that well. I do know that when I get lonely or my emotions pile up I sometimes turn self-destructive. I'd hurt myself just to release my pent up energy. Is that a masochistic thing, or do I just have mental problems?

Needless to say, I feel a bit confused. I hope you could clear this dilemma up for me?

Sincerely, Pet.

It was kind of Pet to write kindly about my writing and I thank her for that. However her comment raises a number of issues and I would like to reply properly to her here.

I do think there is a distinct difference between submission and masochism. I wonder if submission is more in the mind and masochism more in the body? Yes, I know that is much too simplistic. However the two do seem very distinct. Masochism may imply submission but there are many submissives who do not get off on pain at all. Their desire is to be controlled rather than hurt whereas a masochist's desire is to be hurt. There have been interesting discussions about this on A Kind Dom recently here and here.

I worry though about Pet's connection of masochism with self harm. That does seem to be something that I personally find negative. However is that the ultimate conclusion of masochism?

There was also another comment relating to masochism and self harm here.

I wonder what you the reader think? Do comment.

The power of writing to Uncle Agony ...

I recently solved a problem without even replying!

Well, to be fair the writer solved the problem all on her own. It was the writing itself that had the effect. I have written about it on A Kind Dom here.

When I wrote to ask her permission to publish her emails she replied so very respectfully and politely in reply to my request that I told her that once her husband got the hang of this Dom thing he would soon be calling her a "good girl". That made them both chuckle. I do hope they are having fun.

at a loss

I received an email a little while ago from C. She'd had a wonderful D/s relationship for many years that turned sour. I wrote about it on 'A Kind Dom' here where it received some very personal responses in the comments. The respondents clearly show that it is possible to develop a loving and fulfilling D/s relationship having come out of an abusive one.

However having separated from her Dom C is now finding it very difficult to meet a new Dom to tend to her needs. I reproduce her email in full here.

Dear Kind Dom!
Though I am not new to being a sub, I am new at having to find a dom.  I was in an 10 year relationship with a Dom who at first was the best Dom any sub could ever hope to have.  He inspired me to want to submit to him.  Then as the years went by, he became emotionally abusive. He made it increasingly difficult to meet his demands and I was punished more and more. He began abusing me verbally, and breaking our terms repeatedly until I had to leave before I lost every bit of my sense of worth.  That was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.  For years I felt lost.  I didn't date.  I feared that I couldn't judge my ability to stay away from that kind of abuse. I am at a point in my life where I have regained what I lost in that relationship, and I am ready to try again.  However, I have had a difficult time finding the right man.  I've run across so many that confuse being domineering with being a dominate.  I would like to find a dominate who realizes that my submission is a gift and would treat me with the kindness and dignity a human being deserves.  I want to once again feel admiration and that kind of deep respect you can only feel for a kind dom. How does a woman do that?  I've looked for munches or clubs or any meeting event near where I live.  Most seem shady at best - more like swap meets.  Others are no longer functioning.   Can you please give me some advice as to how to start?

Hopeful in Modesto,
C

My reply was as follows.

I am not sure whether having been in a ten year relationship, that at least at first was good, makes it easier or harder for you in your search for a Dom.  On the one hand you have wisdom and knowledge of what a good D/s relationship can be (and what it should not become). However it may leave you very high standards and expectations that a new Dom may find it hard to meet. It may be difficult to find someone who can meet your appropriately high standards.

You have the added problem of having suffered abuse and the trauma that comes from it. The fear of that happening again may haunt you and prevent you developing the trust that is essential in any D/s relationship.

And then of course you have the same problem of many women in just finding a compatible and caring man. How does one do that? You have tried the obvious answers such as clubs, munches and events. You are right to be careful of and avoid those that seem shady or seedy when that is not what you are looking for. I wonder if you have searched further afield using the internet - such as Fetlife, etc.? It might be that a more distant friendship developed there or through blog contacts might lead to something more in the longer term.

Or perhaps readers may have better suggestions.

So readers - do you have other suggestions? Coming out of any long term relationship and starting again can be very hard. It must be all the more so in terms of a D/s relationship and in finding a new Dom. Are there any tips also for finding munches and events that are not "shady". 

"My husband cannot begin to be the man I need ..."

Anonymous wrote a comment here on the previous post. Soon afterwards I received an email from her which I publish with her permission.

Hi. I came across your Uncle Agony blog this afternoon. It was about having a Dom and husband separately. I am not certain that you are interested in my email but if I don't talk to someone, I think I'll run mad. Who better to fill that need than a stranger I suppose. Well enough stalling, here goes nothing. I am 50 and have been married for 8 years. I have not had sex with my husband or anyone else (except myself) for 6 years. I am faced with the fact that I have to stay with my husband for my child's sake (at least for the foreseeable future) but can't bear the thought of my husband's quick, weak fumbling's. I have recently been exposed to BDSM through books and have awakened to the fact that I think I am beginning to yearn for a Dom and am becoming obsessed with the idea of being dominated. I am scared of these feelings because I have always taken care of myself and been the dominant one. No man has been strong enough for me or allowed me to submit. I have only ever had an orgasm by my own hand and am despondent that I will never have an orgasm by a man and never know how it truly feels to be with someone who understands my darker (and as I am finding out) kinkier feelings and can take me to the place my mind and body need to go. I don't want to lie to anyone but have been lying to myself for years I guess. My husband cannot begin to be the man I need but I must be the mother my son needs. That leaves me entirely out of the equation.

I really don't mean to lay this at anyone feet but just being able to say it (or in this case pen it) helps to relieve the intense ache that has taken root in me.

I hope you will write if for no other reason than I will know I'm not crazy. I understand if you think I already am crazy and don't write.

Yours,

B

I have had a number of online friends who have found themselves in a similar position. I wrote back to her telling her of them, their different solutions and my own struggles in the past. I discussed the issues for her as a mother. I also reassured her that she was not crazy!

However the fact that there may be many others who sadly are in similar situations where they feel unfulfilled may be of no consolation to her. She will need to find her own way. I wonder if there are others among you out there who may give her hope though describing how you have resolved this same issue in your own lives? Or you may have strong views from a different perspective.

There are the dangers too as someone who is just becoming aware of certain feelings in beginning to explore them safely. How can one find someone who will not take advantage of her newness and vulnerability and instead seek to help her blossom?

Do add your advice for B in the comments.

Can I have my Master and my boyfriend at the same time?

I received an email from C. She wrote:

Hey

I have a problem and it's driving me a little bit crazy

I was someone's submissive but our relationship had to end due to something out of our control. It was horrible and when I got round to dating people again, I fell for a more of a normal guy. He is slightly dominant in the bedroom and likes that I'm submissive. But it isn't the same... I love being with him but there's a kind of empty feeling because I miss being a sub. I don't cheat on people. So basically I want a way that I can have my boyfriend and my Master at the same time and no-one gets hurt... this is giving me a headache and distracting me from my dissertation. Please help me. I'm not sure how. I feel like Jekyll and Hyde...

Thanks for listening
xx

I replied as follows:

Can you "have your boyfriend and a Master at the same time"? Can you have your cake and eat it? I'm really not sure but it seems fraught with difficulty. Are you talking about taking a new Master as well as staying with your boyfriend? Are you sure you will find a new Master easily? If you do, is your hope that they will each accept one another and be happy with you seeing each of them to meet your different needs? It sounds an ideal situation that I am sure many would like but I doubt that you will find that both your boyfriend and your Master will be happy with the situation.

Or are you thinking of keeping each secret from the other? You say you don't cheat on people so you would find it difficult and it would not be something I would recommend.

You say your boyfriend is slightly dominant in the bedroom. Can you discuss your needs with him and introduce him to D/s in the hope that he may be tempted to take it slightly further and become your Master? In the end I think you will need to decide whether your boyfriend can fully meet your needs and if he cannot then whether you accept that or decide to finish with him and look for someone who can.

Though I know there are readers of this blog who have managed to develop separate relationships with a Master and a husband or boyfriend. Perhaps one of them may comment and let us know how they managed to arrange such a situation.

These are just my thoughts and you will need to find a way through this that works for you.

Thanks and good luck

So - do any readers have a separate partner and Dom? How did you arrive at such an arrangement? How do you keep it working? Can others see how it might be made to work?

taking the lead

J had been reading an earlier post on Uncle Agony, "brand spanking new to the D/s world". Reading it stimulated him to write an email of his own to Uncle Agony.

About two months ago my wife suggested she wanted me to "take the lead" in our sex life.  For the entirety of our marriage she's clearly been the stronger personality and the driving force in many areas of our family and our household and for the last several years I've complained about the frequency, or lack thereof that we are intimate together.

By nature she is not a submissive person and when we started this she told me that she would likely push back.  While she has not explicitly admitted to me that she is testing me I do feel like she tests me to see if I'm willing, and able to actual take the control from her when she is unwilling to release it.  There have been times I've attempted to seduce her into the bedroom but these have ended badly, and now I wonder if she wants to be taken and ravished, not seduced.

I briefly suggested she try to find ways to tap into her submissive side but she's reluctant to do so and instead suggested I find ways to have the confidence to take control and establish myself in the dominant role.  What I inferred from this is that since submission is not a natural trait then the specific aspect that is arousing to her is the act of being made to submit, despite any resistance she may exhibit (similar to the comments by wild cat and how she wants to be tamed, regardless of the growl).

My wife does not like the theatrics of bondage or restraint.  Instead what she's looking for is that carnal desire that is so strong it cannot be stopped (the caveman, or Bedroom Bull depending on what other blogs you read).  She wants me to take control of the When, and not focus on the What that may occur.  Once I've established my role, and put her in her place, then we can potentially move onto other components of a D/s relationship.  

Due to external life circumstances we're in a bit of a holding pattern until we can progress this further, but I'm hopeful that the next opportunity will end different and result in a step forward rather than two steps back.

Any advice you or your readers can offer would be helpful and welcome.

I responded with the following thoughts.

Putting together some of the parts of your email where you describe clearly what your wife has intimated does lead one to the conclusion that she may indeed want you to play the "caveman" role. She suggested you "take the lead" in your sex life. She seems not to like to be gently seduced. She has suggested that you "find ways to have the confidence to take control and establish myself in the dominant role."

You have also made some inferences but not made clear how strong is the evidence for them. For instance you say she is "looking for ... that carnal desire that is so strong it cannot be stopped" and that she "wants me to take control of the When, and not focus on the What that may occur." How sure are you of this. How explicit has she been?

The difficulty here seems to be communication. I think if you truly know that you have permission to completely take control and initiate sex at your direction, expecting her to comply and not taking "no" for an answer then it is up to you to make a move. However - and it is a big "however" - how do you know that you really have permission? You need to be very clear about the level of consent from your wife to any forceful acts from yourself otherwise you are heading for deep trouble. The problem is that your wife may find that even having that discussion and giving her consent puts your wife in the situation of feeling she is still in control when she really wants you to take control.

I think you have two courses. The first is to try to have an open and honest conversation with your wife about this to ensure there are no misunderstandings. You could even agree that "no" does not mean "no" but have a safe word which you would always respect.

The only alternative that I can suggest is to start to try to take control over the initiation of sex in small steps, being increasingly more assertive and see how things develop. It might be that this gradual approach pays dividends in the long run.

Like you though I would love to hear others' views of this - both women and men.

So what do you think readers? Perhaps you may have some different advice.